Best methods for miniature and forced perspective

[Matt Pacini]

Have any of you guys done miniature and forced perspective work?

I did for a building explosion, but it didn't turn out exactly as convincing as I thought it would.

What are your thoughts on the best ways to do it?
(Obviously, one of the biggest problems doing it in Super 8, is our cameras don't undercrank enough. 48fps-64fps is NOT very slow motion. )
I had actually thought of modifying my Nikon Super Zoom somehow, to shoot like 100+ fps.
Any thoughts on this? How hard would it be?

Matt Pacini

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[MovieStuff]

Hi, Matt!

I've done quite a bit of forced perspective miniature work. Here is a shot that I did for a local company that makes educational videos.



I used a nodal point pan and tilt head so that we could pan and tilt with the action as the guy climbed the ladder. The rocket, ramp and two foreground cars are miniature. The man, ladder black car and buildings are real. The radar truck screen left is a miniature with a motorized dish that rotates.

For more information on this shot and a clip see:
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff_gallery.html

Beyond that, I have had to do buildings that crashed in the foreground which, like explosions, would normally require high speed photography. However, my solution for a low budget project (no pictures, sorry) I did some years back was to build my collapsing miniature in a large aquarium and use it as a foreground miniature. When the release pins were pulled, the miniature fell in slow motion due to the density of the water. The powdery sand at the bottom even kicked up clouds that looked really huge on the screen and drifted in the "air" just like they would in real life.

I later used some milk clouds (a thimble full) in water for some nice scale explosions that I used for some space shots.



For more information on this shot and a clip see:
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff_gallery.html

Again, these were overlayed but could have been used in a foreground miniature situation using a water tank. Quartz bulbs were used for the initial explosion, followed by the injection of milk that had been super heated in a microwave. The water was chilled, so when the hot milk dropped in from the top of the tank, it slowed down and wanted to rise. This created a nice mushroom cloud that suspended itself in the "air" instead of shooting to the bottom of the tank. Then the shot was inverted so that the explosion went up instead of down.

Roger

[Matt Pacini]

Excellent!
Yeah, I saw these on your website.
Anyone who hasn't poked around Roger's website really should.
Anyway, how small was the radar truck miniatures, and how where is the crossover line, and how did you discuise it so well?

Is the milk dyed red, or did you do that in post?

How big was your aquarium tank?
What problems did you encounter that we should expect, and avoid, especially in the water tank stuff?

Thanks!

Matt Pacini

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[MovieStuff]

Hi Matt!

Here is a side view of the set up.



An outline of the he radar truck is visible just beyond the gantry behind the base. It was nothing more than a plastic toy school bus from Kmart painted grey with a motor for the dish.

The blend between the two is achieve using a "negative edge". The edge of the particle board that runs parallel to the camera was cut in such a way that it came to a very thin edge that hid the thickness of the board. That allowed the gantry to hang out in space over the real parking lot. Then, saw dust was used as a scaled down version of the gravel, rock and debris usually found on asphalt parking lots.

I took a cigarette and inserted the lit end into a special metal tube that I could put in my mouth. By blowing back through the cigarette, one can produce huge amounts of billowing white smoke. Pretty stinky, but effective. (and I don't smoke. Yuch.)

I used a 50 gallon tank for the other shot that I spoke of. Took a long time to set up because the water had to be filtered and air bubbles clinging to the tank had to be carefully removed. Worked great, though. Sorry I don't have photos.

The milk was shot white and cross lit on a black background and colored in post for the space shots. Quartz lights were flanking the end of the tube used to insert the milk. My wife would pour the milk in and I would simultaneously hit the quartz lights for simulated point explosions. Again, these were done in a small aquarium using only a thimble full of milk.

Roger

[dogstarman]

just found this from back when...

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[dogstarman]

Roger,
Using this method of forced perspective, could I accomplish a similar (though far more basic) STATIC shot using the same kind of set up with a stationary camera + a wide angle attachment?


What else do I need to pay attention to when I design this sort of shot?

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[dogstarman]

"Use the formula I gave about scale and the distance of the table top to the center of the lens."


Did I miss this somewhere?



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[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogstarman:
"Use the formula I gave about scale and the distance of the table top to the center of the lens."
Did I miss this somewhere?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See: "Miniature/Model work". There is a formula I gave for distance and scale. Too long to re-write!

Roger


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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogstarman:
Roger,
Using this method of forced perspective, could I accomplish a similar (though far more basic) STATIC shot using the same kind of set up with a stationary camera + a wide angle attachment?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure. The main thing is depth of field. What gives us a sense of scale is whether or not everything is in focus or not. When you have to focus close under low or normal light, depth of field gets shallow and we inherently see that as something small and close. However, when you shoot something that is big, you naturally have to be further away from it to see the entire subject. Therefore, distance will increase the available depth of field. If something is far enough away, it and everything beyond it will be at infinity and will all be in focus at the same setting.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogstarman:

What else do I need to pay attention to when I design this sort of shot?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's hard to say. It's really a matter of looking though the camera and saying,"Gee that doesn't look real." or "Wow! Honey, come look at this!".

One thing you might do is get some toy cars (about 8-10 inches) and/or some jumbo plastic army men or GI Joes and set up a table top outside for practice. Use the formula I gave about scale and the distance of the table top to the center of the lens. After you set it up and look though the camera a couple of times, everything will fall into place.

Also, you can make your set interactive with real people. For instance, you can have a model car in the forground and a real person in the distance appear to be leaning against the car. Just give them something solid to lean against that will be hidden by the toy car. Likewise, you can also have part of the set in miniature and part of the set full size and "mate" along a natural break. For instance, you could have a door, doorway and frame in the distance with some trim around the edges. In the foreground, you can have a miniature building with an empty opening where the doorway would be. The model and the real door "mate" along the trim line. This way, the people can interact with the swinging door even though the rest of the house is in miniature.

The same goes for miniature bushes and trees. Anything that real people interact with has to be real size. But anything just out of reach can be miniature, as long as they don't have to interact with it.

Again, just try some simple set ups to get the hang of what you can get away with. That will tell the whole story.

Roger


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Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html